Have you read spinoza or about spinoza?
All I know about spinoza is his belief in a non-interventionist god and a verbal-punch-up with liebniz about the role of god in the world
Do you think non-interventionist... - or just non-traditional - ie god was not a retributional presence - but rather an infinite harmony? I guess your term makes me wince - I think my phrase appropriates his views better - but i know where you are coming from.
thats very tambouriney christianity
I think spinoza was going with god making the rules of nature and just sitting back
Ok thats what i meant... we make our own beds - we have to lie in them...so dont blame god
because you did it sort of thing. I think there is a lot of wisdom to that.
Exactly 'God helps those who help themselves'
ie God does nothing - we do it ALL.
But its a very comforting alternative to non-belief though
God is the intrinsic plan. I believe that this world has nothing to do with god - its a creation of the ego and that our reality is beyond this world and god has no conception of this world because its not his creation. WE are his creation - but we have somehow forgotten that and created an illusionary idea about what we are - which is based on fear and limitation and yet mingled with beauty too (because beauty is our essence)...ie the world/the body-mind labarynth.
Do we all share the same illusion?
Until we wake up -then we see through it. Though I suppose everyone has there own private hell.
How do we wake up?
When we have a mystical experience with our essence -but that is not the answer to your question. That is the answer to the question: what happens when we wake up? To answer your question - the how question is complicated but i suppose it has something to do with the substance of the "I" thought - is your "I" hitched to a sense of exclusion and pettiness or does it transcend limitation completely? Coming into some direct relationship with the essence of the substance that lies beyond the illusions that blind us. I suppose every real mystical tradition has its ways
I just read the Tao of Physics- recommend it to you interesting - a book written by a physicist which parallels the insights of particle physics and quantum mechanics with the continuous flow models of eastern spirituality.
Yes, I've heard of it. Murray-Gelman, a particle physicst blames himself for those books by calling particle heirarchys the eight-fold way.
But jokes aside there is a lot of parallels between the discoveries of modern physics and the kind of views that are common to the likes of spinoza and the budda et al
I agree. But some new-age things are beginning to sicken me. A book on Jung that I just listened to was impossible for me.
Well i dont know if it is new age that i am spouting. I agree with Einstein that science and religion are not separate...and I don't know how you qualify experiential meaning - one can live by dogma and infer whatever one wants to fit ones model of how things "ought to be (according to the dogma you subscribe to)" or one can be honest about the multi-faceted nature of the psyche and the universe - and if one does the latter - I don't think one can ignore the limitations of the mind... and hence the significance of symbolism (and hence the role of mythology in the shaping of our finite relationship with the vastness of the cosmic mystery)
Its not Jung's theorys that I was having a go at, symbolism and the role stories play in one psyche are important...it's the music they played throughout and the voice of Michael York in the book on tape I just listened to - that got me!
Oh ok :)
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